Today in class, Jack talked about how happiness cannot be achieved in this tainted world. However, I've experienced joy (a word with a connotation of happiness), and I'm sure we've all experienced the same feeling. With that said, is "joy" just a taste of happiness? Does life let us feel joyful to remind us of where we need to go, what we need to do, in order to achieve happiness in the afterlife?
I think that joy is a small glimpse of what true happiness is. It gives enough to, as you said, remind us of where we need to go. However, I think joy does more than just that. I think joy acts as a tool to keep us in wonder of what happiness really is. Along with reminding us to continue to strive for it, joy tantalizes us with the idea true happiness and intrigues us into searching for a sustainable source.
I'm sure, at one time or another, we have all had levels of pain in our lives that have caused us to look for some sort of release, or means to disappear. Probably a lot of us have thought about giving up, running away, or even ending our own lives. Why is it that in such times of extreme suffering we think about dying? Because we're looking for peace. We want the pain to end, and the simple solution is to just end everything.
Not only does death bring peace, but also, according to the philosophy of the ancient greeks, "It is the end--death--that gives them meaning, ensuring in its finality that one's good fortune… can no longer be taken away." Following this logic, if one has lived a fortunate life all the way until death, then they have achieved happiness
Whether death is bringing and end to a life a pain or finalizing a life of good fortune, there is some amount of peace and goodness in death. Some of us included peace of lack of troubles in our definitions of happiness. Does this mean that death is one path to happiness? Is happiness only possible in death? Is happiness possible at all in death?
Though i believe that Jack may be right about the idea of the afterlife being the only way to achieve happiness, he seemed to forget that the afterlife isn't guaranteed to be a peaceful perfect place. For the greeks, one must die a hero to enter the fields of Elysium where the soul could wonder without stress pain. However, soon the soul could be given a chance to be reborn and seek Elysium again and then once more. If Elysium was achieved all three times, the soul would be sent to the Isle of the Blessed (a place of pure happiness and indulgence). Could our desire for happiness be residual from the hope of gaining access to the Isle?
One of the most fantastic quotes that i came across last night was talking about how, though we try to achieve happiness, "shit happens" and many times we can't do anything about it.
Though this phrase may oversimplify the idea of a world not made for ideal happiness, it allows a quick summarization of why we cannot ever truly be happy. Sadly we do not control the world and events like natural disasters, humanity's battle against nature, and human beings themselves can come out of nowhere and crush ones hope for a perfect life of pure happiness. We all are subject to bad things everyday, though we may not be able to be perfectly happy, the way that we deal with these trying situations shapes us greatly.
" to live in the favor of the gods, to be blessed, is to live with fortune on one's side"
I found in the reading that the idea of "good fortune" was a reoccurring theme, along with the idea of being "blessed". and these terms "were frequently in reference to the heroes, to the gods, and to those who enjoy their favor, indicating divine sanction, freedom from suffering, and general prosperity both material and mortal"
Does this mean that in order to reach this ideal state of happiness we have to have a divine being on our side? Can you achieve happiness without believing in any gods or a God? Or is it just that we have to get lucky? Do we have control as to whether we will reach happiness, or are we helpless?
Is happiness predestined? Doesn't the idea of predestined happiness in a way contradict luck based happiness? Luck in and of itself is not a "predestined" thing, but merely a random occurrence. Although, in theory, the notion of predestined happiness is based on luck or good fortune predetermined for oneself. I feel the whole idea is paradoxical and contradicting. At any rate, is "true" happiness the point in our life where everyone admires us, and our great deed has been done? Once this occurs, what happens after? Must we just cut it off at this specific point? In other words, die once we've peaked in order to preserve our momentary elation eternally?
"...comparative happiness or "subjective well-being" of peoples. Are Swedes happier than Danes? Americans than Japanese? Russians than Turks?"
The recurring theme of relativity simply cannot be ignored when discussing the idea of happiness. Personally, the theme of relativity seems to be beaten into the ground when discussing happiness. It seems a tired and obvious aspect no one can look past. Granted, it is a very difficult concept to bypass, and it would be foolish to do so completely, but there seems to be more...much more to how happiness can be interpreted. The entire thing is just remarkably perplexing.
Taylor Bradley-- Not sure why my name says "Unknown" but I swear it's me.
I thought a lot about Jack's comment throughout the day to be honest. I'm sure most of us have experienced happiness or at least a small sliver of what happiness may fully be. If everyone believed that death and the afterlife is truly the only place where happiness is attainable, then most of us would have a dreary perspective on the world we see. I know I would think of life as pointless and filled with misery like disease and natural disaster. However, I honestly would rather live with the hope that happiness is attainable on earth, even if this is false, to make myself the best version of "me" I can be before entering an after life.
One quote I found interesting is "To believe oneself happy in the meantime is premature, and probably an illusion, for the world is cruel and unpredictable, governed by forces beyond our control."
But in the midst of a "cruel and unpredictable" world, is it better to live in the illusion that you are happy or to accept the fact that you will never be happy until your death?
"Happiness, rather, is a characterization of an entire life that can be reckoned only at death."
In my opinion, this quote has much verity in expressing the fact that ones life is always subject to change, so one could not say that they are happy until they have died a happy life. Of course, this brings about a question that is: What is classified as a happy life? According to Solon, living a happy life entails surviving to see ones kin thrive and furthermore, thriving and prospering themselves. Regardless of ones definition of happiness, I ensure that this quote contains no falsities in saying that death opens the door for the judging of ones life.
"No one who lives is happy,"
After today's debate in class over this topic, I desire to know from you all (even though I agree with the quote) if you believe you can trick yourself or change your state of mind to make yourself think you are happy even if you are living in destitute surroundings. What are your ideas on the matter?
In the world in which we live in, where tragedy could strike us at any random moment without warning, I believe it is impossible to become happy by simply by letting nothing phase your happy disposition. In my opinion, you can tell yourself as much as you want that nothing will break you down or shatter your state of mind, but I think that every event in your life has some sort of impact on you. When dissecting the Greek word for happiness,"eudaimon", one can come to the conclusion that it means to live a favored life without troubles. Therefore, along side Jack and the Greeks, I believe happiness could never exist outside of a vacuum or without divine intervention, therefore happiness flourishes after death. McMahon sums it up best when he states, "Happiness is almost always a miracle, requiring the direct intervention of the divine."
While I agree with the fact that no one can put on a happy disposition 100% of the time, I don't think that it's tricking yourself into a state of happiness. I think Happiness is something that comes from within you, and although outside tragedies can affect you and your happiness it's how you react to those tragedies that really counts to your own happiness...if that makes sense?
Ohhhhh and also for the no one who lives is happy part and the part before hand I have this article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/03/top-5-regrets-of-the-dying_n_3640593.html
and really all it lists is 5 regrets, a word i'd say is closely associated with unhappiness, so in a way i think i agree somewhat with the fact that those who are close to death can actually see what would have/could have made them happier in their life because they have gained the most knowledge that they will ever have before their death. We should take this knowledge provided by the dying and try to learn from it... It wouldn't guarantee happiness but at least a perspective from the people who according to many are about to gain it.
"In a world such as that, life was less something to be made than something to be endured. Only those who did so successfully could be deemed fortunate, blessed, happy." (p. 5)
While living in a world such as that of early Greek life- where children died and disease was spread, it would be easy to be miserable. Arguably, it is easy to be miserable in today's society as well. Whether or not it is obvious, each of us deals with obstacles. It may not be so overpowering and miserable as famine, disease, or homelessness, but each of us quietly faces things throughout our lives. I agree with Solon, that it is how we respond to these obstacles that allows us to achieve happiness.
Today Jack was talking about whether it was possible to achieve happiness in a world such as that of the ancient Greeks, or even ours today. He claimed that happiness is almost impossible to achieve because of our environment. But is it really our environment that determines our happiness or is it what we do with the hand we are dealt that determines our happiness?
In my opinion, happiness is (to a certain extent) a choice. Sure, there are things such as depression that may physically affect your ability to achieve happiness but I think that it is something you can actively work towards achieving. If you sit in misery and refuse to work with the hand you are dealt, how can you ever expect to find happiness? There are some who have had to suffer throughout their lives, yet may be the happiest people you will ever meet. This is because of the attitude that they have towards the hand they are dealt. I completely agree with Jack in that some things are completely out of our control. However, they way that we approach them can lead to happiness.
"Where Happiness for the human races lies... in the successful pursuit of love" (DM33).
In the fable, Aristophanes proclaims that the true meaning of happiness is love. The fable believes that our vacant spot for love, causes people to fell forgotten or misplaced in the world. The fable assumes that love brings people happiness. But what about the people who are content in their life, without love? I personally think that our level of happiness, can be based on more than one thing besides love. Even though happiness may bring people joy and pleasure in their life, it is not the only source of contentment.
I think what Aristophanes was trying to say is that if you can collect things in life, but never truly be content with your situation until you have found love. I am not saying I agree or disagree with this, but his logic makes sense if, in fact, love is all you need to achieve to be happy.
"In the tragic tradition, happiness is almost always a miracle, requiring the direct intervention of the divine."- page 9
This quote represents one of the views of happiness in which people have no control over it. People have nothing to do with making themselves or others happy. The only person (or people) who can grant happiness is God (or the gods). While I personally believe that God can have an effect on a person's life, I do not think that He is the sole contributor. I feel that people have to ability to create his or her own happiness, and it does not rely on a third party.
I had a question about another quote that I found in the text. While reading I came across the quote "A woman thick around the ankles is no good (pg. 10)." I was just confused by what the intended meaning of this was. I thought the "thick ankles" may be a reference to women who work because ankles swell after long hours of work, but I do not know. Does anyone know what it means?
Coming to happiness class, I knew I was going to have to confront figuring out what I think happiness is at some point, but to be quite honest, even at this point I'm struggling with my own definition and idea of it. Last night's reading didn't clear much up for me in this light, rather, it just gave me more questions and qualifications to mull over. One of the quotes from the introduction alone really resonated with me: "...Happiness, if it comes at all, is largely what befalls us" (Bottom of page 9). Human suffering, as McMahon points out, is unavoidable, so is happiness the emotion that results from ignoring the pain in life or is it merely a fleeting feeling that comes from whatever happens to, well, happen to us? Is being happy a choice that we make? Can we control how we feel in the first place, or are we at the mercy of chance? I feel as though this is a very cynical approach to an emotion generally synonymous light and goodness. As we talked about in class today, our perceptions of happiness stem from where we are coming from, our perspective based on our feelings at that very moment. Maybe I'm just not in a great mood right now. If the moment were different, would I feel totally differently about the origins of happiness? Let's say that "what happens to us--our happiness--is out of our hands" (10). If it is merely up to the winds of fate, then is happiness divine? Is it something that comes from God as a gift to help us cope with the darker aspects of life? Or is happiness "a natural human endowment" that is absolutely attainable by everyone if we seek out the means to create this happiness. To that end, I have a friend who, whenever he's bored, will say "Let's make our own fun. It's the only way to be happy." I always joke with him about it, but maybe he's on to something. Maybe happiness really is a choice, we just have to be willing to seek out ways to create it rather than wait for it to fall into our laps.
There seemed to be a lot of focus on the divine ("Happiness is almost always a miracle, requiring the direct intervention of the divine.")<--taken from will or the book really-- and also with Jack speaking about how happiness is only conceivable in the afterlife. Personally, I don't believe in an afterlife nor a divine being. So my question I guess i would say, is more along the lines of are people who choose not to believe in divine beings and life after death sort of condemned to a life without happiness?
Moreover, I came across this part in the text and wrote it down. "Robust Health prosperity and filial harmony, noble achievements, and their public esteem...Death gives them true meaning" I feel that in the case of the Greeks life was a brutish and more of a suffering than any particular enjoyment which led to death being a great thing cause you know no more suffering just "peace". But as the ages come and go , cultures would start to value different things and death today even is seen as a tragedy/loss to those living than a person being put to forever peace...
We've all heard that happiness is fleeting; we do not live in a perfect world, an idealistic world, in which we can experience the fullest extent of happiness, by any definition, for an extended period of time. But in the perspective of our readings, perhaps it is not that happiness is a fleeting experience in our present lives, but, as we also discussed in class, something that is not attainable in the here and now but something that defines us afterwards. "Happiness is a characterization of an entire life that can be reckoned only at death," explains McMahon as he attempts to define Herodotus' perspective on how to measure happiness (7). Perhaps our personal experience is fleeting because it is not true happiness; we can feel a short-lived joy or other pleasurable emotions, but maybe true happiness is not attainable until we add up all the variables that have defined our existence and determined if it is, as a whole, happy. In this way, there is a link to our class discussion of happiness in the afterlife, or in the next life, but without the requirement for someone to believe in that afterlife. Perhaps our happiness is attained simply in the closing of our current lives.
In our lives, if happiness can be thwarted by random acts of tragedy, can tragedy, in turn, be changed by moments of joy? Does this temporary joy qualify as a degree of happiness? Or are they completely separate concepts?
"In a world such as that, life was less something to be made than something to be endured. Only those who do so successfully could be deemed fortunate, blessed, happy." (5). This quote directly reflects the general outlook on life from the ancient Greeks. Their lives are filled with constant struggles against seemingly supernatural forces beyond their control. For them, each person is dealt a certain hand and they have no choice but to play it to the end. They have no power to change the hand they’ve been dealt, only to make the most of their situation. Therefore for ancient Greeks, a happy life is defined as being able to overcome obstacles in a way that is pleasing to the gods, just like Hercules. My question concerns the discussion we had later in class, specifically what Jack had to say. If we are unable to obtain happiness in its purest form in this world, then why should we spend so much of our time and energy deciding what pure happiness is and how we could theoretically obtain it?
Based on the discussion we had during class yesterday, the same thing came up a lot: that happiness is subjective and that in the current state of things, we cannot truly be happy in a world like this. A trying to be happy in a world with chaos, such as death, hunger, famine, warfare appears to be seemingly impossible.The fact that when you are dead, "one's good fortune and one's blessedness can no longer be taken away" seems contradictory in the sense that once you are dead, you essentially lose everything, including those you cherish in that life, your riches (if you had any), and anything that gave you "temporary" happiness (6). This goes back to what Jack said, how happiness is not truly obtainable unless you are in a more Utopian type of world, where what society labels as "unruly and disruptive behaviors" is almost non-existent. But this also strikes me as odd, because who is to say that once we are in the afterlife, we will be truly happy with what we have? Someone pointed out in the discussion yesterday that some people cannot truly be happy unless others are happy. If there were a handful of those type of people in the afterlife and someone was unhappy of the outcome of the afterlife, does that mean that dying had no meaning to them, because they would be unhappy whether they were alive or not?
"The Enlightenment fundamentally altered this long-standing conception, presenting happiness as something to which all human beings could aspire in this life." (McMahon 13). One way of looking at this passage is to say that happiness cannot be obtained in this life. Instead it is something that can be sought after while we are alive, but can only truly be experienced in the after life. So I was forced to ask myself "is happiness something that we, as humans, can only hope to obtain after we are dead? Can we really not be happy while we are alive?" While I like to think that I have been happy and will continue to be happy at times this feeling that I call "happiness" might actually just be what I accept to be happiness. On the other hand, if I believe that I am happy doesn't that mean that I am happy? Is it like the old saying "ignorance is bliss"? I am not sure. Can any of you give me your insight.
"Happiness is what happens to us, over that we have no control."(p19)
This quote embodies what the Greeks and almost all ancient cultures believed about happiness. i like how it is almost completely different from what our views are today. a normal modern person does not believe in destiny, they believe in making their own way. the thought of destiny seems to be a very exotic, yet dumb idea. it intrigues me that people could think this way. I could not imagine living my life just waiting for happiness. i believe it is something you have to search for, physically and mentally.
Would the normal view on happiness be that different if Socrates and Plato had not existed? it seems that Athens was already heading towards the idea of attainable happiness. yet everywhere in the text it says that the philosophers previously mentioned where extremely important. Wouldn't the people of Athens have learned to try for happiness on their own?
"...but the thing that you asked me I cannot say of you yet, until I hear that you have brought your life to an end well."
This is part of Solon's response to Croesus when he asks if he is happy. I found it interesting that Solon's main point about being happy is that you pretty much have to die first. Does this mean that you can't truly be happy when you are alive? Solon explains that the people he mentioned who were happy had both died with a good life behind them, so it seems like his definition of true happiness is dying honorably.
Is he basically saying that if you die honorably with a prosperous life behind you that you will be happy because you will go to heaven? Can you not truly be happy while you are living a good and honorable life? I think it is possible to be happy before we die, but maybe we just can't know what true happiness is during our life on earth.
"Most were constrained to accept what came to them, scarcely daring to think that they might alter their circumstances or significantly influence the many happenings of a lifetime." Page 19
The ancient Greeks relied entirely on their fate to decide how happy they would be in their lives. They believed that their future was completely out of their control, and they did not even try to change the happenings of their lifetimes. This seems so foreign to me, especially because in today's society, many people spend their whole lives trying to figure out how to achieve happiness. As Marist students, we believe that success will bring us some form of happiness; therefore, we work hard in school to make good grades to get into a good college, which will eventually lead into a successful career. We want to create options for ourselves so we can choose our own paths to happiness.
Most no longer believe that happiness is predestined by the gods. This ancient understanding was shared among many different areas around the world at the time. It was easier for the ancient Greeks to just "assume the worst and hope for the best", relying entirely on the gods to decide their fate.
What I have difficulty understanding is how people who believed their fate wasn't good could just sit back and not do anything to change it. How can a person stand idly by as life moves on? How can you trust that fate will bring what you want? I have a lot of difficulty believing I could rely so heavily on gods or destiny to bring about happiness for me. I feel as if it is almost necessary to have control over my own happiness.
Today in class, Jack talked about how happiness cannot be achieved in this tainted world. However, I've experienced joy (a word with a connotation of happiness), and I'm sure we've all experienced the same feeling. With that said, is "joy" just a taste of happiness? Does life let us feel joyful to remind us of where we need to go, what we need to do, in order to achieve happiness in the afterlife?
ReplyDeleteI think that joy is a small glimpse of what true happiness is. It gives enough to, as you said, remind us of where we need to go. However, I think joy does more than just that. I think joy acts as a tool to keep us in wonder of what happiness really is. Along with reminding us to continue to strive for it, joy tantalizes us with the idea true happiness and intrigues us into searching for a sustainable source.
DeleteI'm sure, at one time or another, we have all had levels of pain in our lives that have caused us to look for some sort of release, or means to disappear. Probably a lot of us have thought about giving up, running away, or even ending our own lives. Why is it that in such times of extreme suffering we think about dying? Because we're looking for peace. We want the pain to end, and the simple solution is to just end everything.
ReplyDeleteNot only does death bring peace, but also, according to the philosophy of the ancient greeks, "It is the end--death--that gives them meaning, ensuring in its finality that one's good fortune… can no longer be taken away." Following this logic, if one has lived a fortunate life all the way until death, then they have achieved happiness
Whether death is bringing and end to a life a pain or finalizing a life of good fortune, there is some amount of peace and goodness in death. Some of us included peace of lack of troubles in our definitions of happiness. Does this mean that death is one path to happiness? Is happiness only possible in death? Is happiness possible at all in death?
Though i believe that Jack may be right about the idea of the afterlife being the only way to achieve happiness, he seemed to forget that the afterlife isn't guaranteed to be a peaceful perfect place. For the greeks, one must die a hero to enter the fields of Elysium where the soul could wonder without stress pain. However, soon the soul could be given a chance to be reborn and seek Elysium again and then once more. If Elysium was achieved all three times, the soul would be sent to the Isle of the Blessed (a place of pure happiness and indulgence). Could our desire for happiness be residual from the hope of gaining access to the Isle?
ReplyDeleteWhen you say Jack, are you referring to yourself in third person?
DeleteOne of the most fantastic quotes that i came across last night was talking about how, though we try to achieve happiness, "shit happens" and many times we can't do anything about it.
ReplyDeleteThough this phrase may oversimplify the idea of a world not made for ideal happiness, it allows a quick summarization of why we cannot ever truly be happy. Sadly we do not control the world and events like natural disasters, humanity's battle against nature, and human beings themselves can come out of nowhere and crush ones hope for a perfect life of pure happiness. We all are subject to bad things everyday, though we may not be able to be perfectly happy, the way that we deal with these trying situations shapes us greatly.
" to live in the favor of the gods, to be blessed, is to live with fortune on one's side"
ReplyDeleteI found in the reading that the idea of "good fortune" was a reoccurring theme, along with the idea of being "blessed". and these terms "were frequently in reference to the heroes, to the gods, and to those who enjoy their favor, indicating divine sanction, freedom from suffering, and general prosperity both material and mortal"
Does this mean that in order to reach this ideal state of happiness we have to have a divine being on our side? Can you achieve happiness without believing in any gods or a God? Or is it just that we have to get lucky? Do we have control as to whether we will reach happiness, or are we helpless?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIs happiness predestined? Doesn't the idea of predestined happiness in a way contradict luck based happiness? Luck in and of itself is not a "predestined" thing, but merely a random occurrence. Although, in theory, the notion of predestined happiness is based on luck or good fortune predetermined for oneself. I feel the whole idea is paradoxical and contradicting. At any rate, is "true" happiness the point in our life where everyone admires us, and our great deed has been done? Once this occurs, what happens after? Must we just cut it off at this specific point? In other words, die once we've peaked in order to preserve our momentary elation eternally?
ReplyDelete"...comparative happiness or "subjective well-being" of peoples. Are Swedes happier than Danes? Americans than Japanese? Russians than Turks?"
The recurring theme of relativity simply cannot be ignored when discussing the idea of happiness. Personally, the theme of relativity seems to be beaten into the ground when discussing happiness. It seems a tired and obvious aspect no one can look past. Granted, it is a very difficult concept to bypass, and it would be foolish to do so completely, but there seems to be more...much more to how happiness can be interpreted. The entire thing is just remarkably perplexing.
Taylor Bradley-- Not sure why my name says "Unknown" but I swear it's me.
ReplyDeleteI thought a lot about Jack's comment throughout the day to be honest. I'm sure most of us have experienced happiness or at least a small sliver of what happiness may fully be. If everyone believed that death and the afterlife is truly the only place where happiness is attainable, then most of us would have a dreary perspective on the world we see. I know I would think of life as pointless and filled with misery like disease and natural disaster. However, I honestly would rather live with the hope that happiness is attainable on earth, even if this is false, to make myself the best version of "me" I can be before entering an after life.
One quote I found interesting is "To believe oneself happy in the meantime is premature, and probably an illusion, for the world is cruel and unpredictable, governed by forces beyond our control."
But in the midst of a "cruel and unpredictable" world, is it better to live in the illusion that you are happy or to accept the fact that you will never be happy until your death?
"Happiness, rather, is a characterization of an entire life that can be reckoned only at death."
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, this quote has much verity in expressing the fact that ones life is always subject to change, so one could not say that they are happy until they have died a happy life. Of course, this brings about a question that is: What is classified as a happy life? According to Solon, living a happy life entails surviving to see ones kin thrive and furthermore, thriving and prospering themselves. Regardless of ones definition of happiness, I ensure that this quote contains no falsities in saying that death opens the door for the judging of ones life.
"No one who lives is happy,"
After today's debate in class over this topic, I desire to know from you all (even though I agree with the quote) if you believe you can trick yourself or change your state of mind to make yourself think you are happy even if you are living in destitute surroundings. What are your ideas on the matter?
In the world in which we live in, where tragedy could strike us at any random moment without warning, I believe it is impossible to become happy by simply by letting nothing phase your happy disposition. In my opinion, you can tell yourself as much as you want that nothing will break you down or shatter your state of mind, but I think that every event in your life has some sort of impact on you. When dissecting the Greek word for happiness,"eudaimon", one can come to the conclusion that it means to live a favored life without troubles. Therefore, along side Jack and the Greeks, I believe happiness could never exist outside of a vacuum or without divine intervention, therefore happiness flourishes after death. McMahon sums it up best when he states, "Happiness is almost always a miracle, requiring the direct intervention of the divine."
While I agree with the fact that no one can put on a happy disposition 100% of the time, I don't think that it's tricking yourself into a state of happiness. I think Happiness is something that comes from within you, and although outside tragedies can affect you and your happiness it's how you react to those tragedies that really counts to your own happiness...if that makes sense?
DeleteOhhhhh and also for the no one who lives is happy part and the part before hand I have this article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/03/top-5-regrets-of-the-dying_n_3640593.html
and really all it lists is 5 regrets, a word i'd say is closely associated with unhappiness, so in a way i think i agree somewhat with the fact that those who are close to death can actually see what would have/could have made them happier in their life because they have gained the most knowledge that they will ever have before their death. We should take this knowledge provided by the dying and try to learn from it...
It wouldn't guarantee happiness but at least a perspective from the people who according to many are about to gain it.
"In a world such as that, life was less something to be made than something to be endured. Only those who did so successfully could be deemed fortunate, blessed, happy." (p. 5)
ReplyDeleteWhile living in a world such as that of early Greek life- where children died and disease was spread, it would be easy to be miserable. Arguably, it is easy to be miserable in today's society as well. Whether or not it is obvious, each of us deals with obstacles. It may not be so overpowering and miserable as famine, disease, or homelessness, but each of us quietly faces things throughout our lives. I agree with Solon, that it is how we respond to these obstacles that allows us to achieve happiness.
Today Jack was talking about whether it was possible to achieve happiness in a world such as that of the ancient Greeks, or even ours today. He claimed that happiness is almost impossible to achieve because of our environment. But is it really our environment that determines our happiness or is it what we do with the hand we are dealt that determines our happiness?
In my opinion, happiness is (to a certain extent) a choice. Sure, there are things such as depression that may physically affect your ability to achieve happiness but I think that it is something you can actively work towards achieving. If you sit in misery and refuse to work with the hand you are dealt, how can you ever expect to find happiness? There are some who have had to suffer throughout their lives, yet may be the happiest people you will ever meet. This is because of the attitude that they have towards the hand they are dealt. I completely agree with Jack in that some things are completely out of our control. However, they way that we approach them can lead to happiness.
"Where Happiness for the human races lies... in the successful pursuit of love" (DM33).
ReplyDeleteIn the fable, Aristophanes proclaims that the true meaning of happiness is love. The fable believes that our vacant spot for love, causes people to fell forgotten or misplaced in the world. The fable assumes that love brings people happiness. But what about the people who are content in their life, without love? I personally think that our level of happiness, can be based on more than one thing besides love. Even though happiness may bring people joy and pleasure in their life, it is not the only source of contentment.
I think what Aristophanes was trying to say is that if you can collect things in life, but never truly be content with your situation until you have found love. I am not saying I agree or disagree with this, but his logic makes sense if, in fact, love is all you need to achieve to be happy.
Delete"In the tragic tradition, happiness is almost always a miracle, requiring the direct intervention of the divine."- page 9
ReplyDeleteThis quote represents one of the views of happiness in which people have no control over it. People have nothing to do with making themselves or others happy. The only person (or people) who can grant happiness is God (or the gods). While I personally believe that God can have an effect on a person's life, I do not think that He is the sole contributor. I feel that people have to ability to create his or her own happiness, and it does not rely on a third party.
I had a question about another quote that I found in the text. While reading I came across the quote "A woman thick around the ankles is no good (pg. 10)." I was just confused by what the intended meaning of this was. I thought the "thick ankles" may be a reference to women who work because ankles swell after long hours of work, but I do not know. Does anyone know what it means?
Coming to happiness class, I knew I was going to have to confront figuring out what I think happiness is at some point, but to be quite honest, even at this point I'm struggling with my own definition and idea of it. Last night's reading didn't clear much up for me in this light, rather, it just gave me more questions and qualifications to mull over.
ReplyDeleteOne of the quotes from the introduction alone really resonated with me: "...Happiness, if it comes at all, is largely what befalls us" (Bottom of page 9). Human suffering, as McMahon points out, is unavoidable, so is happiness the emotion that results from ignoring the pain in life or is it merely a fleeting feeling that comes from whatever happens to, well, happen to us? Is being happy a choice that we make? Can we control how we feel in the first place, or are we at the mercy of chance? I feel as though this is a very cynical approach to an emotion generally synonymous light and goodness. As we talked about in class today, our perceptions of happiness stem from where we are coming from, our perspective based on our feelings at that very moment. Maybe I'm just not in a great mood right now. If the moment were different, would I feel totally differently about the origins of happiness?
Let's say that "what happens to us--our happiness--is out of our hands" (10). If it is merely up to the winds of fate, then is happiness divine? Is it something that comes from God as a gift to help us cope with the darker aspects of life? Or is happiness "a natural human endowment" that is absolutely attainable by everyone if we seek out the means to create this happiness. To that end, I have a friend who, whenever he's bored, will say "Let's make our own fun. It's the only way to be happy." I always joke with him about it, but maybe he's on to something. Maybe happiness really is a choice, we just have to be willing to seek out ways to create it rather than wait for it to fall into our laps.
There seemed to be a lot of focus on the divine ("Happiness is almost always a miracle, requiring the direct intervention of the divine.")<--taken from will or the book really-- and also with Jack speaking about how happiness is only conceivable in the afterlife.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I don't believe in an afterlife nor a divine being. So my question I guess i would say, is more along the lines of are people who choose not to believe in divine beings and life after death sort of condemned to a life without happiness?
Moreover, I came across this part in the text and wrote it down. "Robust Health prosperity and filial harmony, noble achievements, and their public esteem...Death gives them true meaning"
I feel that in the case of the Greeks life was a brutish and more of a suffering than any particular enjoyment which led to death being a great thing cause you know no more suffering just "peace". But as the ages come and go , cultures would start to value different things and death today even is seen as a tragedy/loss to those living than a person being put to forever peace...
We've all heard that happiness is fleeting; we do not live in a perfect world, an idealistic world, in which we can experience the fullest extent of happiness, by any definition, for an extended period of time. But in the perspective of our readings, perhaps it is not that happiness is a fleeting experience in our present lives, but, as we also discussed in class, something that is not attainable in the here and now but something that defines us afterwards. "Happiness is a characterization of an entire life that can be reckoned only at death," explains McMahon as he attempts to define Herodotus' perspective on how to measure happiness (7). Perhaps our personal experience is fleeting because it is not true happiness; we can feel a short-lived joy or other pleasurable emotions, but maybe true happiness is not attainable until we add up all the variables that have defined our existence and determined if it is, as a whole, happy. In this way, there is a link to our class discussion of happiness in the afterlife, or in the next life, but without the requirement for someone to believe in that afterlife. Perhaps our happiness is attained simply in the closing of our current lives.
ReplyDeleteIn our lives, if happiness can be thwarted by random acts of tragedy, can tragedy, in turn, be changed by moments of joy? Does this temporary joy qualify as a degree of happiness? Or are they completely separate concepts?
"In a world such as that, life was less something to be made than something to be endured. Only those who do so successfully could be deemed fortunate, blessed, happy." (5).
ReplyDeleteThis quote directly reflects the general outlook on life from the ancient Greeks. Their lives are filled with constant struggles against seemingly supernatural forces beyond their control. For them, each person is dealt a certain hand and they have no choice but to play it to the end. They have no power to change the hand they’ve been dealt, only to make the most of their situation. Therefore for ancient Greeks, a happy life is defined as being able to overcome obstacles in a way that is pleasing to the gods, just like Hercules.
My question concerns the discussion we had later in class, specifically what Jack had to say. If we are unable to obtain happiness in its purest form in this world, then why should we spend so much of our time and energy deciding what pure happiness is and how we could theoretically obtain it?
Based on the discussion we had during class yesterday, the same thing came up a lot: that happiness is subjective and that in the current state of things, we cannot truly be happy in a world like this. A trying to be happy in a world with chaos, such as death, hunger, famine, warfare appears to be seemingly impossible.The fact that when you are dead, "one's good fortune and one's blessedness can no longer be taken away" seems contradictory in the sense that once you are dead, you essentially lose everything, including those you cherish in that life, your riches (if you had any), and anything that gave you "temporary" happiness (6). This goes back to what Jack said, how happiness is not truly obtainable unless you are in a more Utopian type of world, where what society labels as "unruly and disruptive behaviors" is almost non-existent. But this also strikes me as odd, because who is to say that once we are in the afterlife, we will be truly happy with what we have? Someone pointed out in the discussion yesterday that some people cannot truly be happy unless others are happy. If there were a handful of those type of people in the afterlife and someone was unhappy of the outcome of the afterlife, does that mean that dying had no meaning to them, because they would be unhappy whether they were alive or not?
ReplyDelete"The Enlightenment fundamentally altered this long-standing conception, presenting happiness as something to which all human beings could aspire in this life." (McMahon 13).
ReplyDeleteOne way of looking at this passage is to say that happiness cannot be obtained in this life. Instead it is something that can be sought after while we are alive, but can only truly be experienced in the after life. So I was forced to ask myself "is happiness something that we, as humans, can only hope to obtain after we are dead? Can we really not be happy while we are alive?" While I like to think that I have been happy and will continue to be happy at times this feeling that I call "happiness" might actually just be what I accept to be happiness. On the other hand, if I believe that I am happy doesn't that mean that I am happy? Is it like the old saying "ignorance is bliss"? I am not sure. Can any of you give me your insight.
"Happiness is what happens to us, over that we have no control."(p19)
ReplyDeleteThis quote embodies what the Greeks and almost all ancient cultures believed about happiness. i like how it is almost completely different from what our views are today. a normal modern person does not believe in destiny, they believe in making their own way. the thought of destiny seems to be a very exotic, yet dumb idea. it intrigues me that people could think this way. I could not imagine living my life just waiting for happiness. i believe it is something you have to search for, physically and mentally.
Would the normal view on happiness be that different if Socrates and Plato had not existed? it seems that Athens was already heading towards the idea of attainable happiness. yet everywhere in the text it says that the philosophers previously mentioned where extremely important. Wouldn't the people of Athens have learned to try for happiness on their own?
"...but the thing that you asked me I cannot say of you yet, until I hear that you have brought your life to an end well."
ReplyDeleteThis is part of Solon's response to Croesus when he asks if he is happy. I found it interesting that Solon's main point about being happy is that you pretty much have to die first. Does this mean that you can't truly be happy when you are alive? Solon explains that the people he mentioned who were happy had both died with a good life behind them, so it seems like his definition of true happiness is dying honorably.
Is he basically saying that if you die honorably with a prosperous life behind you that you will be happy because you will go to heaven? Can you not truly be happy while you are living a good and honorable life? I think it is possible to be happy before we die, but maybe we just can't know what true happiness is during our life on earth.
"Most were constrained to accept what came to them, scarcely daring to think that they might alter their circumstances or significantly influence the many happenings of a lifetime." Page 19
ReplyDeleteThe ancient Greeks relied entirely on their fate to decide how happy they would be in their lives. They believed that their future was completely out of their control, and they did not even try to change the happenings of their lifetimes. This seems so foreign to me, especially because in today's society, many people spend their whole lives trying to figure out how to achieve happiness. As Marist students, we believe that success will bring us some form of happiness; therefore, we work hard in school to make good grades to get into a good college, which will eventually lead into a successful career. We want to create options for ourselves so we can choose our own paths to happiness.
Most no longer believe that happiness is predestined by the gods. This ancient understanding was shared among many different areas around the world at the time. It was easier for the ancient Greeks to just "assume the worst and hope for the best", relying entirely on the gods to decide their fate.
What I have difficulty understanding is how people who believed their fate wasn't good could just sit back and not do anything to change it. How can a person stand idly by as life moves on? How can you trust that fate will bring what you want? I have a lot of difficulty believing I could rely so heavily on gods or destiny to bring about happiness for me. I feel as if it is almost necessary to have control over my own happiness.