"As Augustine emphasized again and again, true happiness was "the gift of God," to be imparted only at death and only to a chosen few."(McMahon 105)
I wanted to return to what we were discussing at the end of class today. Do you really think Augustine's theory is applicable today? (That is without forcing our own modern interperations on it) What I mean is, how can one really feel anymore happy when there is only a CHANCE, even if they live virtuously that they will be one of "God's Chosen Few." Sure, having that possibility could offer some hope, but I have a hard time feeling like that theory works too well at even offering a "secondary happiness" in today's age. Andrea argued that we should just count on him being a merciful God...but Augustine makes no reference to mercy here. Keep in mind, for all of the New Testament focus on love and forgiveness, this is the same God who literally wiped out the entire world in the Old Testament, banished Adam and Eve for their first offense, punished the ENTIRE egyptian culture (many who whom were not Israelite slave owners) just to get the attention of the king, required blood sacrifices (of animals...but still). It just brings the whole mercy thing into question if that's what we would be basing all of our trust in the theory's usefulness on...
So yeah...just thinking. What do you guys think?
I don't think that Augustine is applicable to today's world. Augustine preaches to accept the life (however good or bad it may be) you’ve been given and after death you will get what you deserve. This does not work for the modern person. We are taught at an early age that we can change the stars and if we put our mind to it, achieve what we want. The idea of waiting for the unknown, where you may or may not experience bliss, is frankly scary. Why should it not be possible for me to achieve the happiness I want during my lifetime?
ReplyDeleteWill, you say that Augustine makes no reference to a merciful God, but in reality he does say that we need God's mercy to get into heaven, which implies that he believes in a merciful God. Also, its a strong Catholic tenet that God IS merciful. Bear in mind that the ancients who wrote the Old Testament legitimately believed that God was a punishing God, so that's how they wrote down the accounts present in the Old Testament. However, I know that as a member of the Catholic Church, God is not a punishing God. He is eternally merciful.
ReplyDeleteAnd honestly, if you do live a moral, virtuous, faith-filled life, you will have that legitimate hope which I talked about today in class. If you know that you are truly following in Christ's light, then you 'technically' wouldn't 'need' God's mercy, right? So that also kind of solves your issue with the idea of the possibility of a not-merciful-God.
And Deanna, one quick thing, you're not simply 'waiting' for the unknown. Like Mr. Ditzel pointed out today, you are 'expecting'-- actively waiting. You are making every effort you possibly can to make your hope a reality. That is how you can change the outcome of your life. And again, doing this won't be easy, and you will suffer just as everyone does in life, but you will reach that eternal life and happiness with God.
I completely agree with you will. Like I said in my post i think that Augustine's view of God focused on the Old Testament far more than the New Testament. Furthermore, a huge part of Christianity is Christ and Augustine doesn't mention him at all. He also throws out the ideas of other philosophers who say we have been forgiven of original sin through Christ. In essence he is throwing out the idea that God is merciful.
ReplyDeleteAnd Andrea, Augustine was technically by name a Catholic. I am Catholic but I do not believe in everything that the Catholic Church wants me to believe and I disagree with a lot. Just because Augustine is Catholic does not mean that he holds with the Catholic tenant that God is merciful.
Basically Will I agree with you completely.
I agree with Will and Jensen! I don't think it would work with people today. I strongly believe that people of today feel that they are able to possess happiness regardless of their religion or belief. I feel that trying to push Augustine's view in today is unrealistic also because our sufferings are very different and we all very different lens on how we view it.
DeleteI know we haven't covered this yet but I really believe there is a lot of psychology involved in today's view on happiness, and I don't think we will fully be able to find a fit for today until all of our ground is covered.
In conclusion I don't think Augustine would be the view we use today.
I agree with most people here that Augustine's theory is not very applicable today. According to my understanding of Coach Coveny's presentation, Marists believe that happiness and joy can be achieved in this lifetime, just not the ultimate happiness one receives from God in Heaven. In order to do this, we must share in a hidden and unknown way a kind of mercy that is welcoming and that renews others through prayer and simple living. This sounds complicated, but I believe it simply means one must live a traditional Christian lifestyle. I cannot speak much for other society's in today's age, but it seems most Christians believe one can be happy beyond simply a hope of eternal salvation.
DeleteHey guys, we didn't read all of Augustine and we certainly didn't read much of his own words. Augustine doesn't come out and say anything in our reading about the Old Testament, Noah's flood, or Egypt. What he says is this life is difficult, so the hope of a better life in the next can create some mirth in this one. There was a reason why most early converts to Christianity were the poor -- it appealed to those that didn't have much going for them. Now they are set to inherit the earth and heaven. Aquinas was speaking to a world of Church dominance and Christian homogeneity. Different audiences, different times...
ReplyDeleteKeep up the discussion!