I know we have talked about this a lot in class and on the blogs and that Either Stephanie or Maddie were the first to ask this question awhile ago, but after today i think it deserves another look. Mr Murphy's lecture on Victor Frankl really resonated with me. The idea that we will only be happy if we find meaning in our lives makes sense because without meaning why are we here. I also like that we have to listen to be happy. Listening to those around us, both close to us and not so close, can help us to be happy. By listening we can hear whats wrong with the world or at least a little part of it and work to fix it. that response means that you are trying to help and doing something, contributing in some small way, feels good.
Overall I think that looking for happiness can make the searcher despair and go insane. Through their search they refuse to listed to what the world needs and focus on their needs. By doing this they don't remember what their searching for even is. Frankl's path to happiness seems like the closest to my own definition. Finding meaning in life, especially suffering, makes everything more manageable.
Jensen, I mostly agree with you on this topic. While I don't think the search for happiness makes an individual go insane, I also do not think it helps one become happy. When thinking of the happiest people I have come in contact with (the Buddhist Monk who spoke to us for example), I really don't see these people as searching for happiness. They focused their lives on making themselves and / or the world a better place.
As Mr. Murphy told explained, "Happiness can not be pursued. It ensues".
"accepting our animal nature will put us on the path to happiness"
I do agree with Nietzsche that to be happy you need to be able to accept your whole self. But once you do where do you go from there? This is something I think that he obviously was not able to expand on because his life was cut short but here is what I think. Once you accept who you are you need to take responsibility for yourself. If you are fully aware of the different sides of yourself it should be easier to do that. While Nietzsche might say morality has nothing to do with happiness I disagree. I think morality and being a good person had everything to do with happiness. Being a bad person while never lead you to happiness. So after you accept yourself and take responsibility you use all of yourself for the greater good. Lol I'm kind of in favor of a Kant and Nietzsche mix. What do you think?
"You have to listen to what life is asking of you in order to find your meaning in life."
Like Jensen, this resonated with me as well. I really think that finding your meaning in life is equivalent to finding happy. If you are on the path you are meant to be on, I think you will be at peace-- you will be happy. However, it's very hard for us in our modern world of answers-answers-answers, to truly sit down and pay attention to what life is asking of us. It takes a lot of patience, and like Frankl said (which I also agree with), you have to adjust your outlook on life. Frankl gives the example of suffering, but I think it's beneficial to change our outlook in many situations that life hands us. We can't possibly understand why everything happens to us, but if we tweak our outlooks a bit, we won't worry about having complete understanding. We can just live the moment and get through it. And we will be happy.
I agree with you, and I think it really fits with Christian belief. We are taught that we are disciples of God who are supposed to carry out God's will, but many people have no clue as to what God's will for us is. When we pray, it is sometimes necessary to just sit and listen to your surroundings, trying to figure out what God wants for us. Many of us ask many things of God instead of just listening. I feel like this is very similar to Frankl saying that we must listen to what life is asking of us instead of asking things of life.
Can you be happy when you are trying to respond to someone who won't respond back to you?
Mr. Murphy kind of explained that we must not be needed for a response, but I still struggle with this. I find it very hard to be happy and accept my responsibilities when the people aren't responding. I've been working on a lot of these philosophies and they work, but only when the people around me want to "play along".. what do you all think? Can we accept our roles and responsibilities when other people aren't supporting that?
I feel like certain situations occur when there is nothing you can do, and in these situations, you have to come to terms with it. Kind of like the serenity prayer (for anyone who knows that one) because after a while you just need to let stuff alone.
I'm glad other people feel this way, because often times I struggle personally with this. I often find myself over-extending for other people, and causing myself more pain and suffering than if I kept to myself.
"Thus one source of people's judgement about life satisfaction is the mood they are in." (DN 35)
Are people ever really able to judge their satisfaction clearly and with any source of accuracy?
I don't think that anyone can take such a large step away from themselves and their lives to ever judge their life clearly. As this quote says people's judgement changes with the mood they are in and this is only one source of judgement. There are thousands more sources and therefore a thousand more ways to judge differently, but never clearly. I think that people need others to kind of point out the good and bad for what it really is because they have an objective point of view. Without this sort of person I am sure people can find happiness some way but I think if figuring out if their life was satisfactory or not was a part of their path to happiness than they would have a harder time reaching happiness and contentment than someone who had that objective friend or guide.
Jensen, your point really ties into a quote that Fr. Konzen taught me in Leadership and Society, “If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.” Lewis Carroll If you dont know how to achieve happiness, you will never achieve it.
Kent, I disagree with you. I would say if you don’t know what happiness is it may be easier to achieve it we always say "ignorance is bliss" is that not the case with happiness. Will a man who knows what he is looking for find it and be satisfied with it more than someone who doesn't know? No, and that is because the person who doesn’t know what they are looking for is satisfied easier with a multitude of objects.
I'm stuck between both arguments, but I actually think that people need lows to truly feel appreciate the highs. But at the same time I think that trying too hard to find happiness and you'll never reach it. I am stuck in between on this idea whether to look or not. A good median of keeping your eyes open while living your life might be the case, but with a little more to it than simply that.
"Man is searching for meaning. Not pleasure or power"
Is this true?
Like Jensen said earlier, Frankl's ideas about man's ultimate goal really stood out to me. At first, it does seem like man could be boiled down to a quest for power or pleasure, but meaning just makes more sense to me. Everyone wants to mean something to others or to the world. It is a depressing thought to think that we could all be here (on this earth) by accident or coincidence, without any special purpose from God. Everyone is searching for meaning.
I agree with this completely. I did not fully understand Murphy's explanation for finding happiness through fulfilling roles but i agree that people want to be... well.. wanted. We want to have a place, a meaning, and a role in the world.
I agree that the ultimate goal for humans is to find meaning in their life. I believe that some people simply believe they have found their meaning when they gain power or pleasure. This is why people like Hitler and Stalin will always exist; those men certainly believed their life had meaning in my opinion. I do think a main goal of people is to search for happiness, but this quest is perhaps within the greater search for meaning. Contentedness, for the most part, is a result of the successful discovery of meaning.
I completely agree with you here. Without meaning life is pointless and nobody would have the drive to do anything. I think that perceiving their lives as meaningless is one reason people become depressed because having a purpose, being needed, or being wanted is what drives almost everything about humanity.
I strongly agree myself, on the first day my definition of happiness was "being needed & loved while living my life with my family and friends". I feel that's a large part of happiness but also with philosophy, your outlook really matters in that case.
I definitely agree. If you think about it, people strive for power and control to get the feeling that their lives have meaning. Ultimately, it all boils down to wanting meaning in your life. Maybe that is achieved through power, but for most people, that's probably not the case.
"What we need is a fundamental change in our attitude towards life."- Frankel Is an attitude adjustment the only thing preventing us from happiness?
While I agree with Frankel's idea of a positive attitude leading to a positive mind, i am still unsure about the concept of actually attaining happiness. Mr. Murphy explained attaining happiness in the present and future tense. But if the meaning of happiness changes then how do we attain it? I understand how our different roles make a new meaning but I don't understand working hard to fill a role and then have it change.
The meaning of life is to fulfill what's being asked of you at the moment.
I understand that if you're a sister and you get to help out your younger sister that would make you happy, but how long will this really last. I don't think this will keep you happy for very long and then you are moving on to the next thing you must take care of. It seems like this just leads to little moments of happiness and my question is just can these little moments of happiness really lead to an overall happiness?
I think that what Frankl is saying is that, if you continuously do this, it will become second nature to you. Therefore, these moments of happiness after you fulfill what life is asking of you, can string together in a sort of continuous string of overall happiness.
Victor Frankel believed in seeing what life asks of you, so is this a better way of thinking?
I believe that one begins to feel less victimized by life if you change your way of thinking. Often expectations get in the way of life. I feel like when we have too high expectations going into any situation then no matter what happens, we will be disappointed. The same is true for life but just on a larger scale. When we give up our expectations and just live, then I think we will inevitabley be happy.
I think that not only do you have to see what life is asking of you but also believe in it. You have to make the leap of faith that life will in the end make you happy.
I do think that most of the time, our expectations are larger than the actual results, so it's important for us to manage expectations. I agree with you Alexandra in that if we just let life happen and accept that, we'll be happier. It almost sounds like you're losing control over life and happiness, but you still have control in the sense of how you choose to think about things.
Does looking for happiness chase it away?
ReplyDeleteI know we have talked about this a lot in class and on the blogs and that Either Stephanie or Maddie were the first to ask this question awhile ago, but after today i think it deserves another look. Mr Murphy's lecture on Victor Frankl really resonated with me. The idea that we will only be happy if we find meaning in our lives makes sense because without meaning why are we here. I also like that we have to listen to be happy. Listening to those around us, both close to us and not so close, can help us to be happy. By listening we can hear whats wrong with the world or at least a little part of it and work to fix it. that response means that you are trying to help and doing something, contributing in some small way, feels good.
Overall I think that looking for happiness can make the searcher despair and go insane. Through their search they refuse to listed to what the world needs and focus on their needs. By doing this they don't remember what their searching for even is. Frankl's path to happiness seems like the closest to my own definition. Finding meaning in life, especially suffering, makes everything more manageable.
Jensen, I mostly agree with you on this topic. While I don't think the search for happiness makes an individual go insane, I also do not think it helps one become happy. When thinking of the happiest people I have come in contact with (the Buddhist Monk who spoke to us for example), I really don't see these people as searching for happiness. They focused their lives on making themselves and / or the world a better place.
DeleteAs Mr. Murphy told explained, "Happiness can not be pursued. It ensues".
Not about Murphy but whatever.
ReplyDelete"accepting our animal nature will put us on the path to happiness"
I do agree with Nietzsche that to be happy you need to be able to accept your whole self. But once you do where do you go from there? This is something I think that he obviously was not able to expand on because his life was cut short but here is what I think. Once you accept who you are you need to take responsibility for yourself. If you are fully aware of the different sides of yourself it should be easier to do that. While Nietzsche might say morality has nothing to do with happiness I disagree. I think morality and being a good person had everything to do with happiness. Being a bad person while never lead you to happiness. So after you accept yourself and take responsibility you use all of yourself for the greater good. Lol I'm kind of in favor of a Kant and Nietzsche mix. What do you think?
"You have to listen to what life is asking of you in order to find your meaning in life."
ReplyDeleteLike Jensen, this resonated with me as well. I really think that finding your meaning in life is equivalent to finding happy. If you are on the path you are meant to be on, I think you will be at peace-- you will be happy. However, it's very hard for us in our modern world of answers-answers-answers, to truly sit down and pay attention to what life is asking of us. It takes a lot of patience, and like Frankl said (which I also agree with), you have to adjust your outlook on life. Frankl gives the example of suffering, but I think it's beneficial to change our outlook in many situations that life hands us. We can't possibly understand why everything happens to us, but if we tweak our outlooks a bit, we won't worry about having complete understanding. We can just live the moment and get through it. And we will be happy.
I agree with you, and I think it really fits with Christian belief. We are taught that we are disciples of God who are supposed to carry out God's will, but many people have no clue as to what God's will for us is. When we pray, it is sometimes necessary to just sit and listen to your surroundings, trying to figure out what God wants for us. Many of us ask many things of God instead of just listening. I feel like this is very similar to Frankl saying that we must listen to what life is asking of us instead of asking things of life.
DeleteCan you be happy when you are trying to respond to someone who won't respond back to you?
ReplyDeleteMr. Murphy kind of explained that we must not be needed for a response, but I still struggle with this. I find it very hard to be happy and accept my responsibilities when the people aren't responding. I've been working on a lot of these philosophies and they work, but only when the people around me want to "play along".. what do you all think? Can we accept our roles and responsibilities when other people aren't supporting that?
I think that there is only so much of your role that you can fill. I think that as long as we are trying it will be accepted.
DeleteI feel like certain situations occur when there is nothing you can do, and in these situations, you have to come to terms with it. Kind of like the serenity prayer (for anyone who knows that one) because after a while you just need to let stuff alone.
DeleteI'm glad other people feel this way, because often times I struggle personally with this. I often find myself over-extending for other people, and causing myself more pain and suffering than if I kept to myself.
Delete"Thus one source of people's judgement about life satisfaction is the mood they are in." (DN 35)
ReplyDeleteAre people ever really able to judge their satisfaction clearly and with any source of accuracy?
I don't think that anyone can take such a large step away from themselves and their lives to ever judge their life clearly. As this quote says people's judgement changes with the mood they are in and this is only one source of judgement. There are thousands more sources and therefore a thousand more ways to judge differently, but never clearly. I think that people need others to kind of point out the good and bad for what it really is because they have an objective point of view. Without this sort of person I am sure people can find happiness some way but I think if figuring out if their life was satisfactory or not was a part of their path to happiness than they would have a harder time reaching happiness and contentment than someone who had that objective friend or guide.
Jensen, your point really ties into a quote that Fr. Konzen taught me in Leadership and Society, “If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.” Lewis Carroll
DeleteIf you dont know how to achieve happiness, you will never achieve it.
Kent, I disagree with you. I would say if you don’t know what happiness is it may be easier to achieve it we always say "ignorance is bliss" is that not the case with happiness. Will a man who knows what he is looking for find it and be satisfied with it more than someone who doesn't know? No, and that is because the person who doesn’t know what they are looking for is satisfied easier with a multitude of objects.
DeleteI'm stuck between both arguments, but I actually think that people need lows to truly feel appreciate the highs. But at the same time I think that trying too hard to find happiness and you'll never reach it. I am stuck in between on this idea whether to look or not. A good median of keeping your eyes open while living your life might be the case, but with a little more to it than simply that.
Delete"Man is searching for meaning. Not pleasure or power"
ReplyDeleteIs this true?
Like Jensen said earlier, Frankl's ideas about man's ultimate goal really stood out to me. At first, it does seem like man could be boiled down to a quest for power or pleasure, but meaning just makes more sense to me. Everyone wants to mean something to others or to the world. It is a depressing thought to think that we could all be here (on this earth) by accident or coincidence, without any special purpose from God. Everyone is searching for meaning.
Thoughts...?
Joey, I think that was the point Mr. Murphy was trying to make. Man is ultimately searching for meaning abhove everything else
DeleteHaha yes I understand that is the point Mr Murphy was making Kent. I was just wondering if the class agrees with him on this or not. I know I do.
DeleteI agree with this completely. I did not fully understand Murphy's explanation for finding happiness through fulfilling roles but i agree that people want to be... well.. wanted. We want to have a place, a meaning, and a role in the world.
DeleteI agree that the ultimate goal for humans is to find meaning in their life. I believe that some people simply believe they have found their meaning when they gain power or pleasure. This is why people like Hitler and Stalin will always exist; those men certainly believed their life had meaning in my opinion. I do think a main goal of people is to search for happiness, but this quest is perhaps within the greater search for meaning. Contentedness, for the most part, is a result of the successful discovery of meaning.
DeleteI completely agree with you here. Without meaning life is pointless and nobody would have the drive to do anything. I think that perceiving their lives as meaningless is one reason people become depressed because having a purpose, being needed, or being wanted is what drives almost everything about humanity.
DeleteI strongly agree myself, on the first day my definition of happiness was "being needed & loved while living my life with my family and friends". I feel that's a large part of happiness but also with philosophy, your outlook really matters in that case.
DeleteI definitely agree. If you think about it, people strive for power and control to get the feeling that their lives have meaning. Ultimately, it all boils down to wanting meaning in your life. Maybe that is achieved through power, but for most people, that's probably not the case.
Delete"What we need is a fundamental change in our attitude towards life."- Frankel
ReplyDeleteIs an attitude adjustment the only thing preventing us from happiness?
While I agree with Frankel's idea of a positive attitude leading to a positive mind, i am still unsure about the concept of actually attaining happiness. Mr. Murphy explained attaining happiness in the present and future tense. But if the meaning of happiness changes then how do we attain it? I understand how our different roles make a new meaning but I don't understand working hard to fill a role and then have it change.
I believe that a positive mind will truly bring happiness because a positive mind is easier to please and satisfy then a negative, cynical one.
DeleteThe meaning of life is to fulfill what's being asked of you at the moment.
ReplyDeleteI understand that if you're a sister and you get to help out your younger sister that would make you happy, but how long will this really last. I don't think this will keep you happy for very long and then you are moving on to the next thing you must take care of. It seems like this just leads to little moments of happiness and my question is just can these little moments of happiness really lead to an overall happiness?
I think that what Frankl is saying is that, if you continuously do this, it will become second nature to you. Therefore, these moments of happiness after you fulfill what life is asking of you, can string together in a sort of continuous string of overall happiness.
DeleteVictor Frankel believed in seeing what life asks of you, so is this a better way of thinking?
ReplyDeleteI believe that one begins to feel less victimized by life if you change your way of thinking. Often expectations get in the way of life. I feel like when we have too high expectations going into any situation then no matter what happens, we will be disappointed. The same is true for life but just on a larger scale. When we give up our expectations and just live, then I think we will inevitabley be happy.
I think that not only do you have to see what life is asking of you but also believe in it. You have to make the leap of faith that life will in the end make you happy.
DeleteI do think that most of the time, our expectations are larger than the actual results, so it's important for us to manage expectations. I agree with you Alexandra in that if we just let life happen and accept that, we'll be happier. It almost sounds like you're losing control over life and happiness, but you still have control in the sense of how you choose to think about things.
Delete